[keep poppin pimples]

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i get what you mean, but i've always seen that brand of marxism as a kind of religious fundamentalism. marx was very intelligent man and he saw a lot of things clearly, but he was elevated to infallible god status by some credulous followers who needed… a faith.

first, they claim to know where history is going. bold claim! that's prophecy. this pattern comes from hegel and his "spirit". marx famously put that upside down, but kept the ineluctability of the end. he was wrong. but i had a commie prof once tell me that we could predict were history was going cuz marxism was scientific. right! that's not science. that's mule faith. i grew up surrounded by communists but i could never convert because they pretended to have all answers--just like the christians. full of shit.

second they have their dogmas yes? they are also "scientific" and therefore "irrefutable". not sure that's how science works though-- science questions itself. but if you dissent then comissar torquemada knocks at the door and sends you to reeducation labor camp. because something must be wrong with you if you don't believe. (of course these are all just excuses to steal)

then you know they promise heaven-- social harmony and the end of social classes and freedom from want and all that shit. total impossibilities because human nature is not like that. just like eternal life, it doesn't exist. when it doesn't come it's because you're doing it wrong! you need to apply yourself harder!

and then of course you have the supreme leader/ayatollah/seer of the unstoppable march of historical materialism whose wisdom cannot be question under penalty of torture and more "reeducation." or, you know, firing squads.

this is an exact parallel to any church that demands absolute faith and obedience. and they all do/have at some point or another. yes i get it that there are many human institutions like that, but it's mostly in religion that your unquestioning belief in impossible promises and invisible rewards is most required. then again, there's paid work for someone else's profit-- same thing ha ha ha. capitalism has a similar religious faith at its core--"some day that will be me".

but anyway, that's how religious causes brain damage-- it damages the faculty of reason and the ability to see things clearly. close your eyes, believe in what's not here. even star wars, which is why people love it.

well i think the actual beliefs themselves are not particularly relevant because all the leading communists in the communist countries became capitalists literally overnight when that became what you have to believe after the governments changed. they all own tv stations now that talk about free markets and ayn rand twenty four hours a day, all paid for by illegally privatizing public things. all the anti-capitalist, anti-religion letsblowupamerica extremists own banks, mcdonald's locations and malls, pretend to be christian and throw lavish fourth of july parties.

i think people who want to be important and powerful will believe whatever they're currently supposed to believe to get ahead. i feel supported in this by the fact that my dad only had one friend who was really into marx and the guy used his megacommie wife's government connections to end up a rich gangster, now both are marx hating fans of noted anti-communist ayn rand. where as true believers in anything are usually bizarro outcasts. like the difference between a rich and famous christian like benny hinn who doesn't seem to follow the rules of the bible at all, vs the homeless guy preaching on the corner. people looking for suckers to exploit will probably rise to the top in any belief system.

oh, i see what you mean. like a charles manson dickhead. yes.

funny story, and to totally deflect the tension-- i think sway likes charles manson, ha ha ha. im not kidding.

yeah pretty much, i do think i remember sway arguing that charles manson isn't a bad person and didn't technically hurt anyone since he just told other people to and it's not his fault they listened. if a belief "peace and looove man far out" makes people susceptible to being manipulated into going around raping and murdering people then we're really all fucked