Why are our parents so pissed off at the Healthcare Reform passing?
 

It seems there is a serious generation gap in this debate..

all the folks from our parents generation are pissed off, where as most of us are rather cool about it, even relieved.

I don't get it? What are they so affraid of? Have the misinformation jockeys and mass media spin doctors utterly succeeded? Why are our parents so pissed off that this HealthCare Reform passed? Didn't they realize our country needs reform? Did they realize they have been paying ridiculously high amounts of money for healthcare? Don't they understand that millions of uninsured Americans cost the taxpayers MORE money through expensive emergency room visits and so we as americans are paying for it one way or the other? SHIT!!
Even my folks are caught up in this shit and they are not exactly rightists


My mother was poor. We were poor. We didn't have any fucking health insurance for years until she got a better job.. she paid for hospital bills from my early childhood up until middle school, she just switched to an upgrade job as a University professor/coordinator and now she is paying more for her insurance than before, and yet she is pissed off at the reform bill passing? WTF?

My pops is a total lowlife scamming SSI/Disability for over a decade now, saying he is too crazy to work (ironically now he has become too crazy too work) and even he was pissed off about this, that motherfucker doesn't pay shit to anyone!


why is everyone so pissed off? I really don't get it..

It sucks to live in a time of serious social reform, all the assholes come out of the wood work.. this is the same climate around the Civil Rights Act.


"They see me rollin.. they hatin"

Socialism man.

My parents are quite pleased with the new Healthcare reform.

My mom, in fact, strongly supports the public option.

dude thats a bunch of baggage left over from the Reagan era..

newsflash America is a mixed system, and there already is plenty of socialism.

Public school?
Medicare?
Medicaid?
Food stamps?
Agricultural Subsidy Programs?
Tax Incentives?
Military-Industrial Complex?

get the fuck out of here with that shit, America has been a mixed-socialist state for a long time now, that is not news, and I highly doubt the Tea Party wants to get rid of the public schools they send their kids to and the Medicare the hope to retire on..

this was not a universal statement, many of our parents are quite pleased, but it seems obvious that the vast majority of opposition is coming from our parents generation (ie, some of our parents) and all the young folks I hear complaining have just been regurgitating the same exact misinformation their parents told them..

Um did you get my point?

I have no idea what people say when they say "mixed system", it is a definition that only exists in america. All the other developed countries have social benefits and services, and yet are still capitalist countries. I know you're going to say blah blah blah, but I just wanted to point out how odd that definition is, only in america people call social services socialism and seem to have a idea of a perfectly free market capitalism being even possible.

If that is a "mixed system" than no country is purely capitalist? sounds like bs, to throw the word SOCIALISM around just to scare people.

For the rest of us, we don't tend to see social benefits, housing, investment, pension, security, health and education as anything more than the basic services that should be provided by the goverment considering we are PAYING them taxes and part of our income.

I don't know, that or space programs.

Looking at it from the UK, I'm baffled at the opposition to Healthcare Reform in the US.
For the vast majority of US citizens, nothing will change except their cover will be more secure (none of this 'pre existing condition' crap)
And for the minority that just plain old couldn't afford it - now they won't have to. What could be wrong with that!?

The rhetoric I've heard on American TV channels shows either a total disregard for those less fortunate in your society, or wilful ignorance about what these reforms are all about.

The UK's National Health Service isn't perfect, but it's free. For everyone. Rich, poor, or destitute. If you need heathcare it's there. If you want to upgrade, you're perfectly entitled to if you can afford it, but if you can't you'll still get a damn good service.

And that goes for most developed or developing countries, most of them nowhere as near as rich as the us, but still providing a basic human right that is health care.

Bingo!

But, didn't you say yourself, some (a lot?) of USians do not think that health care is a basic human right (only to possess guns)

According to Wikipedia. Blue is 'single-payer universal health care', green is 'public universal health care through other means' and grey is 'no health care or data'. You'll note that it's massively underpopulated territories (Greenland and the poles) and the US that are ostensibly prosperous countries without universal healthcare; other wise it's most of Africa (although, let's not forget that not all of Africa is destitute), Arab states, bits of the Indian subcontinent, East-Asian Island states and sparsely populated areas like Mongolia. The US defines 'developed capitalist state' and yet are over a hundred years behind Germany on health care.

The only criticism I've read out of the US criticising healthcare reform has come back to a general disdain towards socialism. Has anyone read anything reasonable that doesn't go into that? Because I'd hardly say good old Fritz was socialist.

I don't think many of the people crying socialism (in the media and the GOP) actually believe that healthcare reform equals socialism. It's just a useful word to put in the mouths of the teabaggers.

You have to remember that a LOT of Republicans (and quite a few Democrats) are in the pay of insurance companies. And this is not a secret.

The US political system is FUCKED UP.

why? because your parents have reacted accordingly to the massive propaganda assault by the racist elites.

As long as hospitals are allowed to bill $8 for a 20 cent pill, the system is fucked.

amazingly, at the same time, the Congress passed the student loans bill that will take the loans out of the banks and loan directly from the State. This will save students money. Won't matter to me, I already paid my tuition + 25% because I'm poor.

I don't think my parent really like it. I think it is myth, but they were concerned about people not recieving care once they reach a certain age.
Most older folks do not like change. They are content to have thier suroundings predictable. It scares them.

Yeah, we ALREADY HAVE health care rationing. If ya ain't got the money or insurance denies you, you ain't got health care!

This bill will, hopefully, make it (rationing) smarter by paying for outcomes rather than just lots of (potentially harmful) tests.

I haven't paid attention to this at all, nor do I give a fuck. Of course, I am the only person I know who is successful at all, hasn't blown all their money on retarded shit, and isn't in debt, so maybe that has something to do with it. Does this mean I HAVE TO get insurance? If so, that's fine, it just will cut out the drug dealers I usually deal with to get hydrocodone. Now I can just get it legally, and for cheaper. Either way, no biggy.

They grew up in the Cold War.
They hear the buzzwords of the Rightwing Noise Machine and react like one of Pavlovs dogs.

The problem with the older folks is that they are staggeringly greedy about their medicare to the degree that they're quite paranoid at attempts to reform healthcare in any way. The public option, sometimes referred to as expanding medicare, directly irritates these fears as pundits tell them that such reform would drain their coverage.

Goo is totally underrated.

Goo sucks.

The word socialism will only exisit if you have something like 40% income tax rate. Where 40% of your paycheque goes into schools, health whatever.

This system is in place most Scandanavian countries. It seems to work for them.



Americans are just idiotic when it comes to this word. Canada is too 'more socialist' because we generally have higher taxes.

the scandinavian countries are not socialist countries.
you can't be more or less socialist, it's a system, it's yes or no.
and 40% tax is pretty common in many places in the world, depending on how much you make, it's usually a rate that is applied to more high paid jobs, not the majority.

excluding sales tax, the average american pays between 30-40% on income taxes combining state and federal..

weird. for most of us, taxes are taxes, nothing to do with state or federal.
and people on lower incomes do not pay income tax.
anyway
that should be enough to afford health care no?

I just think there is a grave misunderstanding in the USA about that term. Likewise, I started a thread on fascsim a while back because I also thought that it was a misused or misunderstood term.

I just object to that fear that somehow the American people are going to line up and start marching like in a Riefenstahl movie. It doesn't work that way.

please stop saying socialised medicine.
it's just health care not socialism.
which unfortunately, you haven't got yet.

I understand what you're saying in most cases. I'm glad my parents finally see things in a larger scale. I'm happy some of the things I said made sense to them. Ha.

that's what my parents want though so errr that's why i worded it that way

medicine that is, not full on socialism

it's not socialised medicine, it's just medicine, just the fact people feel the need to put the word socialised there says a lot.

Really! What the fuck is so bad about socialism anyway? Europe seems to be doing just fine. The pheasants don't seem to be revolting...

and that's a LOT!

Bring down the socialist in the white house.

sorry

which countries in europe are socialist

i must have skipped life

Well, they are more socialist than USA

I don't think you can be more or less socialist. You either are, or aren't.
If that is your logic,there isn't one capitalist country in the world.
offering free health care is no different from offering free education, it doesn't change the right to private property, free market, competition and what not.

here's a list of countries that are socialist/communist at the moment:

china
cuba
north korea
laos
vietnam

you see, NOT in Europe.

my geography teacher would be so mad, hearing people say that.
anyway
what i'm saying is just the spreading of the idea that public health care is more socialist than public schools or that those countries in Europe are (MIXED lol) is an attempt to scare people away from their most basic human rights and justify corporate abuse

I would disagree: there is a continuum of governmental theories/practices. True capitalism would mean there is no gov't--everything is in the hands of private people. True commumnism means the gov't controls everything. And socialism would fall somewhere inbetween.

Where is the line? Impossible to say. Obviously, a lot of USians say that health care is socialist. But, public schools, police, fire, armed forces... are all socialist.

No goverment = anarchy. What you call TRUE capitalism (which is bullshit by the way) is being called anarcho-capitalism and things like that.

They are systems and there aren't mixed systems in that way. All those European countries you've mentioned are capitalist, with free market, private business, property and assets and trade.

You can't be making definitions up as you please. Goverments, taxes and services were always part of capitalism. You're mixing it up with anarchy, different things.

the term "mixed economy" is pretty much an american invention - probably in the sense that they'd like you to believe that certain regulations would have a major impact in your personal freedom and democracy, but basically, just so their profits and activities are not controlled in any way.

as long as you're paying taxes for education, development, security why should health care fall into another category? I mean, you don't call it socialised education.

my parents are happy for me now that health care reform has passedd-- they have government-provided health care supplemented by private insurance. they live in a 3rd world country and get way better health care than i do here in 'Merica!

oh the irony

i'm watching the sunday political shows by the way, i can't believe these teabagger cunts keep crying about it. actually i believe it-- it's just highly annoying. i hope they die.

True--there are economic systems and social systems. And sure, anarchy is not exclusive from capitalism. Socialism and communism are economic systems. The Stalinist system would be called a 'command' society. I used the word 'true' to denote that it was idealized and really can't exist in the world. China can hardly be called purely communist any more.



Sure, but the government has a good amount of control over a variety of aspects of life. Socialism.


As we've learned from Texas, the people who write the textbooks create the definitions. You're definintion is probably different from mine.

Look at http://www.politicalcompass.org/index to see how my definitions work and are related.


No, USians (and I guess you) do not call those things socialism. But they are.