what is it?

Then again, you could just chill out, enjoy doing your artwork, and stop bothering about erroneous opinions about what art is, isn't or might be thought of being. I mean, it's not like worrying extremely or making it a visible focus of your energy is going to help you concentrate on producing any of worth.

^ Yes.

yeah, normally i don't think about that stuff at all these days, but when i was at art school i had to deal with it on a daily basis and i read last night something that reminded me about it, i was just using it as an example. and if i ever try to sell or get my work or get it out into the world post-modern BS is probably something that will cross my path again.

The whole art school creativity thing+rebellion+drink motherfucker+create+I think it's great+you look cool so I think it's great, even though I don't have any other feelings apart from those for my own ego and similarly self-absorbed, resembling my own views on humans people which are as relevant to a wider audience as nothing like that is+ might have done it.

hes right, but his music sounds like shit.

Isn't doing an interview for GQ kind of anti-Albini? Aren't they appropriating him to sell magazines and look cool?




Is Ballet then not an art? Or is only the music the art?

In my experience, crafting is an art.

How is Kurosawa, Kubrick, Welles, etc. not art?

Ahhh . . . the "it's only art if I like it" argument.

I for one am fairly glad that Sonic Youth helped drag alternative music/culture into the mainstream, because without it we'd be drowning in hip-hop related crap (and not the good kind of hip-hop, either). A lot of people think the 80s were the apex of rock music, from musicianship to partying, but once you reach the top, there's only one direction left to go-down. By 1990, rock was definitely heading toward the bottom. The alternative era revitalized rock music by first destroying the blights of the hair band days (overproduction, wanky musicianship, the whole live fast/die young ethos) and rebuilding it as something new and exciting again. But that wouldn't have happened if someone-like Sonic Youth-hadn't stood up and said, "The masses are asses, huh? Well, fuck that! We're taking our music to the people, and if they like it, cool, and if they don't...well, at least we tried."

Yeah, the main stream can be pretty shallow in some parts, but...I dunno, I've spent a good part of my late teens and early-to-mid 20s being a music snob and railing against the conventions of pop culture, but I've found the fringe to be a pretty lonely place and I've got ambitions that won't fit on it. Compromise is about two sides giving a little, so maybe if I want the mainstream to come to me, I need to go to them a bit.

You do have some of the worst opinions known to mankind.

Mmm-hmm. Have fun at your day job.

Agreed!

If Steve Albini finally gave up flirting with the mainstream he so despises, I might even take him seriously. In the meantime he should just worry about placing a real microphone up his wife's arse and pontify about the realness of its sound.

Re: films, there are auteurs and then there are studio men. Look at DePalma's more personal films, and his more "studio" type films (Mission: Impossible). There's plenty of artistry in his camera movements and editing choices, though I don't think $100,000,000 films are "artistic". But DePalma is definitely an artist, as are Ozu, Jost, Godard, Kitano, etc. -- basically, directors who live and die for their films, and are usually not very financially successful. But very very few directors are auteurs and display any artistic flourishes in getting their films made. Most films are made for money -- the films made for the love of making a film, ie films that are a bit more personal, demand a respect for their artistry. Maybe "movies" aren't an "art form", but if they're not, then novels/painters/video games/music/etc aren't art forms, since it can be argued that all of that stuff is just for money, and just manfuactured. And, hell, most of it is. But there are real artists doing personal and brilliant art, too.

NOTE: Steve Albini's favorite film of all time is "Used Cars", which is one of the best comedies ever!





Amazing film.

As for Albini's politics, he's always been caught up with "integrity" and whatnot. He usually makes some great points, but more often than not, he comes across as bitter and usually just make me go "Yeah, but who cares?" It's worked well for him; Shellac is one of the only bands ever to be successful without a manger (Fugazi also comes to mind), videos, major label backings, and releasing an album only once in a blue moon. So, yeah, I dunno... I'd say, regardless of what crazy shit he's said, he produced Space Streakings albums and that makes him one of the coolest people ever! Anyway, here's a GREAT interview with him:

http://www.markprindle.com/albini-i.htm

Like his words mean anything. Of course moving images are as much art as anything to do with creativity. I feel almost stupid writing this, if it wasn't for the fact that I am blessed with such a pretty face that is a work of art itself.

I think we're all forgetting the fact that Rob is a tad idiotic and half the stuff he says shouldn't be taken seriously.

Rob is just violent.

I think we're all forgetting that Rob is one of few people on here that often actually DOES know what he's talking about.

I like Rob. His interests go beyond musical snobbery + video games.

albini comes across as a puritan, and the article itself says that he and his bandmates make a living from pursuits other than music.

hence they have the "freedom" (relatively) to record every 5 years and tour once a decade or whenever the fuck they can do it.

sonic youth members on the other hand try to make a living from music; as a result, they have to do what it takes to make their business work.

here's the catch though: whatever the fuck albini's band members do to work for a living, they sure have to "compromise" with economic realities.

e.g.: albini records for musicians who work for the very major labels he decries; bob weston is also a business owner; todd trainer (wikipedia sez) "manages a warehousing and shipping company"-- i'm sure he trades with "the man" on a daily basis and doesn't just store and ship fair-trade hand-made hemp goods.

everybody has to make a living and quit the adolescent posturing. what you decide to do in order to eat and feed your children is up to you. albini simply shifts his compromises from the musical sphere to the business one. in other words, he sweeps the filth under the rug. and that doesn't make him purer than anybody else who tries to make an honest living with their work--it just makes him more sanctimonious.


oh yes, and of course this too. i'm sure he got either money or free publicity (or both) out of "the man".

Moshe, I love you, but you totally mistitled this thread. He didn't "go off on Sonic Youth". He criticized one facet of their behavior, while acknowledging they are still his friends and he still likes their music. As others have stated, they probably agree with a lot of what he had to say, given they left the majors and returned to the indie world.

That said, he can't help but look like a hypocrite for saying it in an interview in fucking GQ! Not to mention that this is the guy who produced In Utero for what was then the biggest selling major label band on the planet (did a fine job too, but that's not the point). Sure he told them not to put the word "produced" on it so he could maintain his indie cred, but lets be real. I'm sure the paycheck was a bit higher than $1,000. Probably still pays for his internet connection so can watch funny cat videos on that bastion of non-corporate media You Tube.

If you read the link to the Electrical board someone posted Albini said it wasn't a planned interview, the guy just came up to him and said can i ask you a few questions.

Good point. He might be more responsible for bringing down the "scene", that he is referring to, than SY!

While this is probably true, he sure did give hella long answers to some of the questions!!

Albini will record for anyone (including Bush). He doesn't insist on having his name put on any sleeve, and only charges flat rates (he made $10,000 for In Utero). He's got some weird ideas, not all of which I agree with, but he's always stuck to whatever these ideas are since day one.

People come to him asking for his services, not the other way around. I can see how one may feel as if he's contradicting himself...but not really. He takes advantage of this world he speaks against, they don't take advantage of him.

Two sides to every coin. This just happens to be a coin that doesn't matter too much either way.

This reminds me of this.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cge3SKUVIw

and this................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDaqCzuudnU

Sonic youth / Steve Albini have had some light hearted banter between them over the years. I wouldn't take it too seriously!

ps . Steve Albini does like Sonic Youth records, even a couple of their major label ones......... http://www.sonicyouth.com/history/reviews/index.html

^ hahaha great first vid...

"this song is called we're sonic youth and you're Steve Albini"

Albini's name on an album lends it a level of cultural legitimacy that it might not otherwise have. It's the same as if an up and coming rap artist gets RZA to produce his debut album or when a pop artist gets some hotshot dance producer to remix their latest single. More people are likely to take notice of it. Albini's name may not be a guaranteed passport to success but I'll bet that while he mightn't insist his name is credited on the albums he produces, the record companies that pay him now do. He's a brand name as much as he is a producer, if not more.

I wouldn't dispute that.

I also have a real problem with his thing about the band having day jobs. Shellac easily have a high enough profile for its members not to have to work 9-5. They choose not to tour, either out of laziness or (I suspect) because Albini makes far more as an in-demand, 'name' producer than he would on the road. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a case of the other members having to keep their day jobs, simply because Albini won't leave his. Either way, are bands like High on Fire, or Clutch any less 'indie' because they make a living touring, rather than through a regular day job? Albini's had this weird hard-on for some idealised blue-collar bullshit from the beginning. He should fuck off and become a miner and stop ruining Stooges albums.

"This is the Big Black reunion song!" *goes into White Cross*

....He says in the interview they're still friends, I think he explained himself quite thoroughly in a sense, but it would have been nice if he had been more specific about the problems he had with the band.. I'm guessing it has to do with Chuck D on Kool Thing (though he really doesn't do much at all) and then the Butch Vig superslick production of Dirty/Jet Set is probably the stuff that rubbed him the wrong way; I seem to remember Albini having a problem with Butch Vig and his production styles -- don't forget there are drum samples on Dirty, too. I think Albini saw it all as a bit slick and, I dunno, CREDIBILITY-HURTING, or something.

The thing is, though... Jet Set is probably their weirdest batch of songs ever! Even if it's "slick" -- that album's crazy! I think a lot of what they did was with good intentions, with good humor involved -- "CORPORATE GHOST"... also, fuck, they were making money off of making highly idiosynchratic, sometimes downright weird music... that's amazing. Isn't that the American dream? Albini was probably referencing SY doing Dirty and having Butch and trying to ride the grunge thing or whatever, but maybe not. Again, it's hard to comment when he himself wasn't specific.

Anyone remember when Albini slammed the Pixies a ton, and then later said he regretted it (he also later said Kim Deal is the greatest female songwriter of all time). He also regretted the stuff he said about the Jesus Lizard... with Albini, it's all about integrity, "sticking it to the corporates", ethics.. you know. I guess. That's the image he projects anyway.

As for Albini recording bands for cheap, I'm not sure -- Electrical Audio has really great rates, but they do have pretty flat rates. However, he said before that would record whole albums by bands in his house for $200 for a few days' worth of work -- mainly if he liked the band or whatever.

I dunno. It all seems so silly to me, him being 40+ years old and still caring so much about a punk spirit, and "the trouble with music" and all that, I mean the music "business" is something he isn't even a part of.

Either way, he's my favorite producer of all time, and one of my favorite musicians of all time. And I've always thought it'd be neat if SY and Albini would work together on an album. Doubt that'll ever happen now.

IMHO you are not doing nearly enough drugs ASP.

I'm withdrawling, actually. Day 3.

See, I knew it. WTF?

4 year habit.. time to kick the shit. Going insane. Anyways...

Maybe you will be sane once you kick. Then you will stop liking shite music. har har

Uh, right.

Either way, no amount of drugs would ever make me want to sit through a Radiohead album again.

The drugs were making you like Daft Punk rip offs. You would be better off with a Radiohead album.
Maybe now that you are sober you will shave your hair off.

With all those drugs, you didn't even notice you were listening to 128kbps mp3s!

And don't shave your hair, get glasses and become a Woody Allen type figure.

Shellac easily have a high enough profile for its members not to have to work 9-5.
rather than through a regular day job? Albini's had this weird hard-on for some idealised blue-collar bullshit from the beginning. He should fuck off and become a miner and stop ruining Stooges albums.

Very funny but he might be onto something. The reason 'labour' has been around so long and rock was better in the past is because their is a co- relation between rocking out and doing shitty work. Each other compliment each other. It also helps the brain work different parts of it, you come back more refreshed.

I scoff at blue collar shit just as much as you do but I do there is a spirit or an edge that comes with people who are giving it there all in all parts of your life.

Its kind like when people fast, when you do, it makes you feel better after. It has spiritual properties.