for the first time?

Yes, my opinion differs from yours because I'm uneducated. [/Sarcasm]

Should I play the tracks backwards to hear something different?

I hate to seem like me and NR are tag teaming against any opposition here, but really?! Well, I guess that is true for tracks like Fireman, but for Receipt or Shooter or a hell of a lot others, he seems no more club orientated than a lot of other 'classic' rap. There's a huge variety on there...

Oh and yeah, I thought it was a lot more clubby first time through I will admit. It's a grower.

no obviously you're smarter than us.

Isn't being "amusing" the entire point behind entertainment?

What do you think about Esham?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCsitiKTo0w

He was one of ICP's biggest influences - and it's extremely obvious in their material. They ripped their favorite aspects of his style, added some dick and fart jokes, ditched the satanic allusions, and that was that.

You guys seem to expect so much from a group called the Insane Clown Posse. They are rapping clowns from one of the poorest cities in America...who just so happen to be serial killing servants of "The Dark Carnival".

Most people don't pick up a cheesy slasher flick expecting high art. I happen to adore schlock, and dick and fart jokes, and serial killers who chop up cops, and baseheads, and wife beating bigots; eat dead bodies, drink Faygo, and fuck fat chicks.

Sounds a lot more "amusing" to me than what's played on the radio these days. Especially with all the yelling.

no I get it. THa'ts what i like. Every society needs clowns.

Like Glice was saying, they are intended for a very specific audience. I'm almost fearful of how much I listen to ICP, and how much Faygo I've started drinking on a daily basis. I'm even attending the gathering in August.

But there are all kinds of people who like ICP, struggling through all different kinds of lives, in all different parts of the world. I mean, if I'm a juggalo...we can't all be that bad, right?

Horrorcore is where it's at

Gravediggaz.

I like them too. I like all kinds of hip-hop. Just not Lil Wayne. I'm actually frightened by just how popular he is. Some people are even going as far as to call him the next Dre....bleck!

Are awesome!

I think Lil Wayne would be cool if he was to get some similar beats and do his thing. A way less slick, over-produced, niteclub sound. Because again, like I said, he has an awesome voice.

The Carter II is a fucking tremendous record on so many levels. I feel like their is definitely no better album to help you appreciate the dirty south and cash money records. Cash Money & Family just do real big shit. Always.

I was always super into Big Tymers, Hot Boyz, etc. So, naturally, I had some exposure to Lil Wayne. However, his verses always tended to seem the worst to me on those tracks. He kind of pissed me off just being in them. There was something about his flow that I just couldn't get into.

Then, as I was getting in my friend's car, Shooter was just starting. I was instantly hooked and had to know what it was. Lil Wayne had perfected that style that I had once found annoying or even abrasive, and it was fucking sick! I bought the record and within a week had obscene numbers of his albums and mix tapes. I couldn't get enough.

Dope Boy is a fantastic song. I can play that shit on repeat. I feel like Lil Wayne's lyrics are so tight with the music on this album than any of his other albums. It's the only Weezy album I can just 'throw on' without being in some sort of super-Weezed mood or something.

All I have in this world is a pistol and a promise
A fist full of dollars, a list full of problems
I'll address them like P.O. Boxes
Yeah I'm from New Orleans, the Creole cockpit
We so out of it, zero tolerance
Gangsta gumbo, I'll serve 'em a pot of it
I'm wealthy, still fucking wit that block shit
Wet your ass up, head to feet til your sock a drip
Don't strip, you might fall and bust your ass
No snakes at the carter, tell the gardener to cut the grass
I hear 'em but they talking under mass
Stop throwing pebbles at a bulletproof glass

wayne has a bunch of good tracks, i don't think anything on this album is particularly interesting



...........

I really am trying to see what some of you guys see in Wayne. But so far from what I've heard, his flow and lyrics are weak. Can someone please post a wayne song to show me his lyrical skill and flow? noisereductions?

This is a really important point I think - wider than this thread. There's this curious austerity that follows a lot of music, as if something entirely preposterous like ICP should be written off precisely because it's ridiculous. If you compare it to film - the only other popular art which has anything like music's social standing - there's an socially-imposed disanalogy. That is, it's alright to enjoy a film like Avatar (name out of a hat) which is clearly fantastic, ridiculous and by no means 'serious' because it's a film, but music is often considered exempt from being appreciated on that level. The other side of this is fine - we can enjoy a 'serious' film (say, Schindler's List) in a similar way we might enjoy a Dylan Vietnam protest song. Although, personally, I'd take the Monks' brand of hysteria over Vietnam over anything Dylan ever put out.

But yeah, while I don't actually like ICP, I can't really see what's so bad about them (except, obviously, that miracles song is astonishingly bad). I am, obviously, always right on any given subject, and as a consequence I am the prime arbiter of good taste for the world, but I don't really see that ICP's brand of ridiculousness is immediately a bad thing - like Herr Felikson says, it's patently ridiculous, and if you enjoy that ridiculousness, there doesn't seem much point criticising. For my part, they're vastly more enjoyable than yet another ugly guitar band who don't really say much, don't really engage their audience, don't really comment on society, don't really make the effort with all that bits that aren't music (clothes, videos, merchandise) etc etc.

Glice, I'd rep you to the #1 spot right now, if I could.

I'm fully prepared to admit that I just don't get Lil Wayne.

dude TRUST ME, his earlier albums and mixtapes are not slick nor "nightclub."

I can respect that more than just trying to say dude isn't talented. That shit's ridiculous.

Well, I'm not NR, but for a classic hip-hop fan (which I assume you are?), I'd probably say this (sorry to hammer it, I know I've mentioned it like 3 times in this thread), or this. I mean neither of those are necessarily the height of his flow or weirdness, but they're classic tracks, and as a serious southern rap sceptic that was mainly only into classic or underground east coast stuff like Wu and Doom at the time, it's pretty much that pair that converted me. Alternatively, just listen to the whole of Tha Carter II, but if you do, be sure to give it some focus and listen through a couple of times. It's genius reveals itself slowly. If none of that does it for you, I guess he's just not for you...

It's evident that he's extremely talented. His flow really is very good and from what I can tell he's a pretty shit-hot guitarist. I just don't understand the whole package - particularly in terms of his lyrics, which just leave me cold. Besides that, I find it hard differentiating between what he's doing and a lot of what I hear on music tv. Maybe that's because a lot of what I hear on music tv has been influenced by him to some degree, I don't know, probably.

you might be on to something demon. But also a lot of his singles you hear on tv/radio are geared towards those mediums. They tend to be pretty far from his album tracks, and further from his (official) mixtapes.

----------------

Case in point, REBIRTH was released in February. It is NOT a radio album. It was meant as his "rock" album. The label hates it. And understandably. He's a horrible guitar player, yet he tries to solo. He switches from Andre 3000-style raps to No Doubt new wave to Blink 182 "pop punk", tries his hand at um "hardcore" does ballads samples Scarface disco and still manages an amazing duet with Eminem. The album is so fucked up and ridiculous and over the topand poised for failure (almost like GLITTER or TRAPPED IN THE CLOSET) that the label (and by label I mean Universal, not Cash Money) has instead released REBIRTH quietly and done nothing to promote it (DESPITE the fact that Wayne has actually produced a bunch of videos off of it, haha) and instead keeps releasing singles from Young Money's album to tide fans over. But honestly, REBIRTH is so fucking weird that I think it's awesome. It's so ridiculous that I find it brillian.t I mean, it's a huge star basically committing career suicide. I mean regardless of whether you think the music is "good" or "bad", it's at least waaaaaaaaay more interesting than any other Major Label rap album that has come out lately. I mean, BLUEPRINT 3 was a really really "good" album, but was it Interesting (as in something different, or stand-out-ish BEYOND just being a "good" rap album?) I can't believe it's not getting a lot more attention or analysis becuz it is fucked up. A slow-motion trainwreck falling off a cliff into a lake of sharks and razors on fire. I actually love it.

This bit makes me want to listen to Rebirth (which I've not heard before).


To be honest, I'm still waiting for Jay-Z to make that album.

Ignore me though, I'm still mourning MC Eiht's dramatic artistic decline.

note to self: google mc eiht to see if he's still even alive.

EDIT: he is.

haha, I havent thought about MC Eiht since jr high!

unfortunately for MC Eiht, nor has anybody else.

hahahah

I just realized that rather than comparing to BLUEPRINT 3 I should have just used the Young Money album. it's more apt. It's actually competing with REBIRTH. They're two completely different Lil Wayne albums.

We Are Young Money is a way better album, musically.
Rebirth is a far more interesting album.

@ atsonicpark -- I've heard that most of Korn play on REBIRTH, though I haven't confirmed that. They are in the "Prom Queen" video playing his band though.

Commenting on the "ridiculous" factor of ICP.. that's all well and good but it's when millions upon millions of people take their ridiculousness SERIOUSLY. That it's not even entertainment to them but something truly speaking to them. Honestly, every juggalo I've met in real life has been a major moron. I'm not saying ALL of them are though of course.

derek, I would agree. When I was younger I worked in a record store, and that made me hate ICP. The droves of idiots that would come in with face paint and bondage gear to buy the Twiztid or ABK album just made me not want to enjoy it. Late in life I was able to distance myself from that shit and sort of "get it" on my own. But I don't even own any of their albums anymore. It was more a brief "let me check this out. Oh yeah, it's not so bad" phase, and then I was done.

I drove through Yuma the other day on a drive from Tucson to San Diego and we bumped "Da Drought 3" in regards to him having been nailed by Border Patrol there in 08.

I listen to a lot less Sonic Youth because of their fans. Manic Street Preachers were alright (one album) but their fans are largely headcases (and, by now, number a fair few exes of mine). Most u2 fans I've met have been the nicest people imaginable.

I don't see how someone else's interpretation of ICP would affect your appreciation (or otherwise) of a band. Unless you worked in a record store, something I've never done and nor would I want to for that very reason.

EDIT: BEING GAY ON THE INTERNET IS GAY GLICE, YOU BIG GAY GAYER.

seems to be a contradiction in there somewhere...:)

You're not wrong - SY fans are fucking awful, and I've met far more of them than I have ICP fans. In many ways, I suppose SY are the ICP of the UK. But yeah, complete tautology on my part, I just haven't ever met a 'juggalo', and that's where I come from.

Juggalos can be the fucking worst sometimes. Maybe I'm just crazed.

that s awesome. DA DROUGHT 3 is great.

I don't think ICP is nearly as big over there as they are (or were) here.

I forgot to mention the other reason I pulled ICP into this thread. Mainly, becuz I think contribing an argument by saying "guy, you like ICP" is awesome.

I see U Pee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmdt_...eature=related

This is my new favorite Lil Wayne song.